Michele Pillar – a famous recording artist, three-time Grammy nominee, and world-renowned figure for 40 years – shares her brutally honest and empowering story for us this week. Now an author and public speaker who encourages life change and better decision-making, Michele offers a riveting conversation in which she poignantly shares the life-changing miracles of faith that transformed her personal childhood trauma and subsequent wrong decisions into a source of healing and hope for many around the world.  

Recently, Michele’s latest book, Untangled, The Truth Will Set You Free, was featured on the Dr. Phil Show. She was as honest with Dr. Phil as she is with us on this episode! Be sure to listen all the way to the end where Michele has specific advice for women in their 20s, 30s, and 40s.  About Michele Pillar:

Author, speaker and three-time Grammy nominee, Michele Pillar has a story everyone should hear. Her journey of courage began as a child when she found herself routinely hiding under her twin bed to escape the violent behavior caused by her mother’s addictions and many subsequent life-altering experiences. Yet, due to much deep “heart” work, a remarkable trust, miraculous life experiences and her strong faith, looking back, Michele feels only gratitude. Michele’s recognition from her early music career, her many #1 radio hits, chart-topping records and national tours built a strong foundation for her personally and professionally, but also uncovered the deep memories, painful past and trauma that she rivetingly unpacks in her book & song: Untangled/The Truth Will Set You Free.  

Michele Pillar’s appearance on Dr. Phil (May 13, 2021):

https://www.drphil.com/videos/why-christian-recording-artist-michele-pillar-says-she-felt-like-an-imposter-for-years/(Segment One) 

https://www.drphil.com/videos/christian-recording-artist-michele-pilar-reveals-what-and-who-brought-her-back-from-the/(Segment Two) 


Beth: You’re listening to the Remorseless Podcast!. Hey guys, what’s up? It’s Beth Fisher. Welcome to episode number 31. Today, I have a very special guest, a three time Grammy nominee, an unbelievable woman who is completely transparent in some of the mishaps that she had partaken… per token…done whatever, over the course of her 65 years on this earth.

So Michele Pillar is an incredible woman who, did I mention, is a three time Grammy nominee. So her voice is absolutely beautiful. She sings a song entitled “Untangled,” which is also the title of her book. Untangled: The Truth Will Set You Free. On this episode, you’re going to hear Michele talk about the things in life that she chose to do that she has deep regret for.

She has worked hard to overcome those things, to come out on the other side and just to give back. So she’s got some really great advice on this episode for women specifically in their twenties and thirties. She said—and I love this part—Even in their forties—I went okay, Michele, you’re talking to me. So without further ado, you guys, please join me this week in welcoming Michele Pillar to the show.

Thank you for joining us today on Remorselessly Biblical! I’m really glad you are here.

Michele: Thank you, Beth. It’s great to be with you.

Beth: Yes. And as I was saying to you just a little bit ago, when I started to read your story, I was immediately moved. This is what God does through each and every one of us, we know we’re all made in his image, but the things that he uncovers for us along the points of our journey, the people that he brings in our lives…at just the right time.

That’s what I always tell our viewers and listeners is, it’s not us, you guys—it’s not.

Michele: No. I mean, we’re all his handiwork, you know, if, if we’ll allow it into whatever degree we allow it, we truly are as handiwork. And first, okay, it’s I thought that I had to somehow protect God’s impeccable reputation by trying to do something I wasn’t, I really was in it. It sounds funny, but I was almost feeling like I had to protect him. I knew I was flawed, but I didn’t want anybody to anybody else to know. And even though Paul tells us in Scripture that, you know, God has made us strong through our weakness, I didn’t quite, I didn’t know how to translate that. I think it’s because I was still so broken. I wasn’t comfortable being transparent at that point.

Beth: Yeah. So let’s start there. If you could share a little bit with whatever you’re comfortable in terms of your brokenness, you know, I read your story and I, I watched you on Dr.Phil; People, she was on Dr. Phil. This is interesting. Um, you know, I just. How, how did that happen by the way?

Michele: Crazy story, but it’s definitely a God story. I mean, who would ever, who would ever guess that Dr. Phil would read my little book and my book is called Untangled and he read it, but the reason why he read it, um, I’ll tell you the real quick version is because someone who read my book contacted me. And I won’t go into detail about the whole story of that and the twists and turns of it. But I can tell you this much, um, when this person contacted me, it was not all on the up and up. And so, and so, when I kind of got Untangled from that, from this communication I was having, um, I realized that this person needed serious help.

We all need help, but this person was in dire straits of needing help. And, um, she started, when I, when I kinda got in twisted from the whole thing, she begged me for help. And I said, do you really want help? Cause I, I said, I can’t help with the level of help you need. But I think I know who can.

And so I disconnected contact with this person and I reached out to Dr. Phil. I’d never done that. I just went on his website, little old me. He said, tell your story. And I clicked on it. And I told the staff, the production staff, my story. Well, all that said that show actually wanted to happen. But didn’t happen.

Oh, I see. And so we all did everything we could, but it did not happen. And so in the meantime, Dr. Phil read Untangled and said, Hey, you know what, Michele, even though that story didn’t pan out, I still want to talk to you about that book. I want to talk to you about how God untangles somebody, this is what he actually said to me.

I want to know your story. I want to know your life. I want to really know how you started off the way you started as a child and ended up whole and complete. I want to hear about it. Okay. I actually said, are you sure? Cause I’ll have to talk about Jesus. You know, I said, there’s no way to make this user-friendly. I’m going to have to talk about Jesus and I wasn’t trying to. Uh, you know, be sarcastic. I was being honest cause he was still, he was so honest. Just a beautiful man. Beautiful man. And so he said, yeah, I really want you to talk about that. And I said, okay,

Beth: Even at the end of your interview, he said, God bless you. You know, I was really wowed by that. And I love two things about what you just shared. One is that you were trying to help someone. And these are how often, and I share this here a lot in the show, that doors open. And when people say I’m stuck in my life, I don’t know what to do, I don’t know who I am, I don’t.. so on and so forth…I always say the quickest way to get through it is to do for somebody else to help somebody else, to your point. And then God just opens the doors and puts us where we’re supposed to be.

But then the second point to Dr. Phil, when you said, are you sure even want me on your show? On LifeNetwork for Women when they asked me if I wanted to be a contributor here, cause I’m like, yes, I want to talk about God, I can’t stop talking about God and people and stories, but I said, are you sure? Like I sometimes go off script a little bit. And I sometimes am like, I’m the girl that always says, you know, you’re not going to hell for saying hell. I’m like, are you sure? Cause I don’t know how to be super evangelical, but that’s the thing.

I hate labels. I think God transcends labels. I think he is all about being in relationship with us and, you know, we are the ones with this, with the self-made narratives and the constructs and the things that sort of hold us back. Not only ourselves, but then we judge others. So I could just go on about this, but…I know it’s true.

Michele: It’s all true. And so it’s funny as when I wrote the book to begin with, when I wrote the book Untangled, I felt like the Lord was, was, it was decades after I had spent a lot of time alone with the Lord. Well, let me go back. I started as a recording artist. So you got Grammy nominations.

I know. Um, and, and, and that was, it was all fine. I loved God. I sang about the Lord. My heart was sincere, but I was extremely broken and I had baby Christian roots. My roots system in faith was very shallow and I was catapulted into a recording, a career, which isn’t unlike most, most recording artists are very young.

Yeah. I mean, the recording world is for the young, you know, and you have kind of a shelf life on that, on that life. And so you’re running as fast as you can, with this opportunity to be a major recording artist. I love singing about Jesus and, and all that, but, but because my root system was so shallow, I was certainly set up to fail, not by anybody else, but just by the whole circumstance, there’s no way I wasn’t gonna fail. Sure. And I did.

There was a write up there at the pinnacle of my recording career, where I was on the cover of today’s Christian woman. I had just been on the Grammy awards and I was out with Billy Graham with the crusades. I had an affair with a married man. Okay. So why does somebody wake up in the morning and say, I think I’ll absolutely turn my life upside down and ruin everything?

Why do they do that? That’s a big question because I confused myself and the whole world when I did what I did. But looking back, what I realized is a couple of things. First of all, I was exhausted. I was spiritually exhausted. I was physically exhausted. I was emotionally exhausted. I was doing 200 concerts a year. And by that point, even though my love for God was great, everything was out of whack. And that’s the first thing that will set you up for something as catastrophic as making a decision, like having an affair, because guess what? Having an affair doesn’t fix anything. It only makes everything worse. The other thing I believe is that I don’t think women or men actually have affairs for sexual reasons.

I just don’t. I think you have an affair because you’ve lost your voice. You’ve lost your position. Somehow. You’ve lost your self respect. You’ve whatever whatever’s going on in your life, you feel powerless and tired and exhausted, and you just you’re angry. Whatever those reasons are. That’s why people have affairs.

Right? And so I did, and I lost everything. And in chapter, one of, of my book, I talk about where I was the night I realized I had nothing. I had no record deal. I had no ministry and I was back at my mother’s house, sitting on the bed. I had hidden under as a little girl to get away from her yard sticks and coat hangers when she drank. Yeah.

Beth: And isn’t that when the point of your story, where you said, you just thought about taking just a handful of pills, because you were like, it’s better. I can’t deal with all of this. It’s just better. If I’m not here. Didn’t you get to that point, Michele?

Michele: I did. And I was holding the pills and here’s there’s this is, what’s so tragic.

It’s great that I’m still here, but here’s so, what’s so tragic about that moment. It’s so sad when you have placed so much hope and so much of your self-worth on things that can be taken. Yeah. Uh, whether that’s your looks, whether that’s your job, whether that’s a relationship with someone, you just think you can’t live without.

And then all of those things can be taken away. They’re all, they’re all perishable. And there I was, I felt like a liability. I felt like a disappointment to everybody, even to God. And I felt like I was worth nothing because everything that I had, my self-worth, you know, sitting on was gone and that’s not where God wants us to be.

It’s too fragile. We’re too fragile for that. And so, yeah, I prayed, right. I had a kind of, you’ll have to read it, but I had a face off. I had a face off with the darkness and it’s never happened again. I wasn’t drinking, I wasn’t asleep. I wasn’t on drugs, but I had a conversation with the doctor. And the darkness was trying to talk me into taking the pills.

And I prayed one more time. I said, Jesus, I don’t want to do this, but I, I, I don’t know what else to do. And I can’t find you right now. I’ve sung about you. I’ve loved you. I gave my all these years to you just telling the whole world about you. But I can’t find you. And I felt God’s presence. Sit down next to me on that bed.

I literally felt an impression on the bed. I was in the dark and it scared me. And then the Lord began to tell me where I was and what he wanted from me. And basically he just said, Michele, I want all the things. You’ve never known how to give them. You’ve only given me the stuff you knew how to give me, but there’s a whole bunch of tangles that you haven’t a clue.

So you’re finally where I want you to be. You’re not ready to die. You’re ready to live. It’s time for you to live. And so losing my recording career and all that was the best thing that in retrospect that could have ever had,

Beth: Well, it isn’t that the story. Thank you for sharing so much of that. It’s a story. Yeah. Hitting rock bottom and saying, even to your point, you were a believer. You’re singing about God, you’re saying the words, and yet you can’t find him. And so it feels a little bit imposter ish, I’m sure. Guilt stricken, guilt ridden. Um, but I want to go back. One of the things that you said that just popped in my mind, when you were speaking about you, you feel like when people have affairs, it’s often not, probably, usually not for sexual reasons.

It’s because you feel like somebody lost their voice and what irony. You’re singing. You have a beautiful voice. You’re using your voice on stage for thousands of people around the country. And yet you feel like nobody sees me for who I am. Isn’t that crazy. And you, I know you’re on stage with Billy Graham and just in the moment.

And I think a lot of our viewers feel this way. A lot of believers feel this way. We know that people are leaving the church in droves, and it’s not because we aren’t believers. It’s not because we don’t believe in God. It’s not because we are not. Jesus followers is because we say, where, where are you?

Where are we? Who am I it’s that whole questioning that comes into play. And that is when to your point, decisions get made from a place. Of walking in step with Jesus, but in complete contradiction to, and then we end up saying, wow, wow, I need to get, I need to pu

ll myself out of this. And it’s never by our own strength.

45ichele: no. And, and to your point, I, you know, I, I get that people are leaving the church in droves and, and, and, and some of that is absolutely, I mean, frankly, it’s marriage. Yeah. Um, but on the other hand, you know, we, weren’t created to walk alone and when we do walk alone, we’re just not smart enough to counsel ourselves off of these ledges and off of these places, you know, theologically, emotionally, spiritually, we need one an I need someone like you in my life.

I need someone like you in my life to just to shoot straight with me and say, Hey, Michele, right here, you’re losing. Yeah, like you need to draw close to God right here, here. Let me show you some scriptures. Let me remind you of the truth of the Lord. Let me remind you who you are in the Lord. And let me remind you that you don’t get to make it up as you go.

I think, I think that’s what scares me about people getting too far out there on their own. They want to go their own way and kind of like, as if they’re going to discover something. All of us didn’t know before, or nobody knew before. Right? I mean, that’s, I mean, I hate to say it, but it’s, it’s real egotistical to think that I’m going to just drift off into the waters by myself and I’m going to have this discovery of God that other people just can’t seem to get.


Beth: Like your Magellan.

Michele: Yeah, that’s crazy. You know, what’s going to happen when I get out there in the, in the deep end. And then the enemy is just going to pick you off and you’re going to think you’re being so smart and you’re being so theologically sound and you’re probably going to be going off a cliff.

And so we really do need one another, but it does need to be transparent. We need to know that God really is not offended. He’s not offended or put off by our sin because he already knows who we are. He knows we’re sinful and that doesn’t make it okay. But he knows we’re flesh. I love descriptors. He knows we are, but flesh.

And so we do need to be able to come together, be a little more honest and be a little more transparency. Restoration takes a lifetime guys restoration let’s stop pretending like it’s all done. Yeah. And I think that’s why people are leaving the church. What

Beth: do you think? I think you’re exactly right. And I think that it’s so last year, obviously, you know, this is, um, an overplayed statement, but it did such a number on us.

And I think when we were in it, many of us, um, I work for a homeless shelter. So I’m in a nonprofit. I was there every single day and I just, we just kept showing up. We just kept doing and doing and doing so many frontline workers right in life. Just. Stop. Right. So, so we did not have time to grieve in the moment we just kept on doing what needed to be done.

And I think oftentimes, especially as women, we get trapped in that we should behave this way. This is, these are the expectations I have to just. You know, plugging along and getting through things for me. I did the same thing in church. I should go to church. I should just show up, but I was disconnected.

And for me, I’m a very connected person. I always ask why I want to know the why behind things. So I became really disenchanted. Not with God, not with Jesus. But with church, not big C building. Yeah. When I was inside of it many years ago, growing up and I wasn’t able to ask those really hard. Why questions?

Well, why do I have bad? Thoughts of God made me? And he’s going to be mad at me if he made me this way. And I’m thinking these things, like, it feels like a setup, you know? And he doesn’t feel like a loving God, but I’m hearing this message of a loving God. It felt very contradictory to me. And I could see that boxy and the way people are living.

And I’m like, I don’t want any part of this, but yet that made me feel very. Lonely because I, we need God because the holy spirit is living and breathing and active inside of us. And I think I have to figure this thing out. And I think that’s where many of us are. I think we’re figuring it out. I think we’re deconstructing untangling.

I think we’re going through all the things in our past and saying what doesn’t add up at what point in my life did something come into my life and make me stop in my tracks and say, I have to reevaluate. Many of us weren’t allowed. Right. Many generations swept that

Michele: stuff under the rug. Yeah. About that.

See, I wasn’t raised in church, so I didn’t have to unlearn any of that. I didn’t have to unlearn anything. I, my brokenness came from being raised by an alcoholic mother, alcoholic father and three addictive sisters, older sisters addiction was all around me eating our house alive. I saw darkness every day.

I did wouldn’t have called it that as a kid, but you know, when your mother’s running around the house with yardsticks, trying to find associate can beat, beat you, you know, have to death. And what’s odd is then she’d be really loving when she was sober. So it was really crazy. But to get back to your other point, I think.

I think all those questions are imperative to ask. We have to ask those questions, but then we have to make sure we stay rooted in the word of God, where we find the answers and not some philosophical new trend where people kind of cherry pick out of the word of God, you know, what, what feels good to them and what goes with the culture and what you know is inclusive.

I mean, come on guys. I mean, you know, Look at the centuries. Look at Solomon. I mean, look at the old Testament. People have been adopting false doctrine for centuries since the beginning of time, the first false doctrine that was ever adopted was in the garden of Eden. They, they bit the apple because they, they, they took the bay of false doctrine that the enemy fed.

Yeah, he twisted God’s words and then they bit, and then death came into the world. So that’s my only argument with that. I think we should ask all those questions. And by the way, Beth, when I took that 10, 15 years off, I mean, it was a long time. I didn’t think I’d ever be in ministry again because I didn’t feel worthy to be in ministry.

And, and yet I sat with the Lord. For almost 15 years now, I did go to church and things like that, but I, but that’s not where I became whole. I mean, it was good to go to go, but where I became whole is sitting alone with the Lord and it’s not easy. This is not fun. I’m just want to say that out loud. You know, everything comes into your head.

What you gotta do, pick up your phone, go buy dog food. I need to lose 10. I need to lose 10 pounds. I need to get on my elliptical. You know what I mean? Whatever. Right. I don’t have time, but with God, I got to lose 10 pounds. Okay. So the thing is, is for 15 years, seriously, I sat alone with the Lord. What I did is I started making lists of my questions.

I started making lists of things. My mother said to me and things she did to me, then men that I was with that I should have never been with. Why did I date the guy eight years older than me? Why did I? And I started making lists, of course. And I could start to come to the Lord and say, okay, Lord, you’re my wonderful counselor.

So counsel me. Yeah, here’s my list. And then I dove into the word and I sat there in prayer and I listen. And I kept going back into the word and then I’d listen, and I am not kidding you. We become whole with that intimate, you know, that Anton that relationship with Jesus, but we do have to be careful.

Well, we’re that alone that we stay grounded in the

Beth: word. Yeah. And speaking of that, I love that so much. When I was reading chapter one of your book, you went right to scripture and chapter one apropos, you started in the beginning in Genesis and it says you intended to harm me, but God intended it all for good.

He brought me to this position so I could save the lives of many people. And that is really it. You said you took this 15 year break to spend very intimate time with God, which it’s not easy. Not only does your brain go to all. Running to do list and life. And I can’t sit still and I’ve got these things in my mind and how do I focus?

Right. But also I think that our minds get carried off a little bit because we’re so. Fearful of being found out. We have to be incredibly vulnerable. We know God knows, but there’s a sense of shame that we have to untangle, unravel, get rid of and say, I am so sorry that I made those choices. I, I did have a sense of deep shame and regret and remorse and all of the things for those choices that I made.

And God, please still love me. Anyway, when you said you intended to harm me, but God intended all for good. And that we, we have these stories that we are at some point. Meant to share, but the difficulty in sitting still with the Lord and being prepared, right, just like he prepared Moses, he prepares all of us through our experiences to go out into the world and to preach the good news and to share with people.

And so I could say the lives of many people so that somebody on the show, somebody in our lives can say, wow, you really, your story. Stop me from making a bad decision. You saved me from thinking differently about myself. You, you inspired me to show up as a person. God made me to be it’s part sitting with God, right?

Because he is vulnerable. He sees us, we know he sees us and we’re like, I’m carrying around some shame here. God, for that one when I was 15, I, you know, I tell people I was rolling around in the back of a Trans-Am drinking some Bush light back in the day. I was, uh, a Midwestern girl. And I was with wrong boys too.

And I was like, ah, and I was trying to say, we’re all just trying to fill a void. And to your point, it can’t be with fleeting things or things that are not permanent or it can be taken from God is none of those things. He’s infinite eternity. He is unconditional love.

Michele: He really is an end. Like you were saying to sit with God.

I think I feel that’s almost like a muscle that we have to exercise to get good at it. And I still have to do. I mean, I, you know, right now I’m in the middle of mark. Batterson’s 40 day prayer challenge. I love that book. I was looking for it. Um, and I’m a bad about day 23 and I get up every morning, go out on my porch, rote really with my coffee.

And of course my mind’s already turning. Figure out why I don’t have time to do it, but what I will, he said in that book, which I love, he said, the more you have to do, the more important it is that you spend time with God in prayer and in quiet, the more you have on your plate, that’s, it’s even more important to find time to pray and to get things straight because otherwise you’re going to be running around like a chicken with your head cut off.


Beth: right. You said you were spiritually exhausted. You were physically emotionally exhausted. You were doing 200, right? You had no time. Um, and so that’s when things get really off track.

Michele: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The thing that you said that I, I wanted to just comment to you real quick and you can, you know, use this or whatever.

I don’t know, but it kind of hit me when you said, you know, you feel shame. You know, we come to this place of realization of what’s really going on. When we’re honest with ourselves, then it’s hard to come to the Lord. You feel shame, you feel this and that. I think it’s just so important. Then when you do feel those things like shame, guilt, fear, like you’re not enough, whatever.

You’re not measuring up. You realize again, you go back and it God’s word because none of that comes from God. And so many times people will go actually go away from God because they feel shame say, well, the church has made me feel shame. Well, yeah, the church may have, but that’s not who God is. So, you know, try not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

I just get so concerned when I see. Uh, people kind of adopting these, uh, kind of wonky theologies because they somehow have thrown away the baby with the bath water. They’ve they’ve taken all of God and thrown it out, um, because they don’t want to feel shame and they don’t want to feel guilty. And that’s, that’s not good either because that’s not who he is.

Not at all, not all to

Beth: your point earlier, why it’s so imperative to be immersed in scripture, because if we want to walk with God, if we want to be in relationship with him, want to know who he is. We have, I mean, it tells us who he is. We just have to get there and say, Hey, okay. I believe this narrative because I see it actually playing out in my life.

We just have to show and it’s not overnight. Right? None of the stories of the folks in the old Testament, anywhere throughout the 66 books, none of it was, oh, Hey. So I met Jesus and now I’m like this amazing person who never fell down. Again. Look at king David, look at all.

Michele: You know, even, even solemn. And I keep coming back to Solomon because he was supposed to be the wisest man in the world and on David’s death bed, he’s talking to his son and telling him everything he wants them to remember because now David gets it right.

David finally gone the whole gamut. And he’s like, don’t forget this. Don’t forget that, you know, keep God first, you know, all these things of just, you know, don’t forget these things. It’s such a beautiful passage on when David’s on his death bed and so solid. Is is he prays for wisdom? Which is the smartest pair he could make and, and finds out that, well, now God’s going to give you everything because you pray, you prayed for wisdom, so everything will be yours.

And then Solomon ends up worshiping false gods and sleeping with a bunch of women. And you, I mean, even Solomon, you know, had a tough time keeping his hands. Out of the stew. Right,


Beth: That’s right. That’s right. And you know, the other thing I want to read this and then ask one question this, because I think your, your whole book, I’ve not read it all, but by the way, when did it come out?

Where is it? Where’s your book right now? My

Michele: book here I’ll show it to you. It’s like. Beautiful blue, blue tangled yarn on the front. Michele Pillara it’s on Amazon and my website. I mean, it’s it’s anywhere, but most people buy it on Amazon and it’s Michele with one L and Pillara Pillar was too like pillar, but yeah, it’s called Untangled, Anna.

Yeah, but go ahead. What were you going to ask me?

Beth: I might read a little bit in chapter one. I love this part. It says God meets helpless people every day who have no time to spare no time to pray, no time to make it right. As when driving on frozen bridges and ice pay roads at midnight, he wraps his arms around the chest of the dote, just as she’s ready to leap out in front of her.

He stands with us when we’re crumpled next to a hospital bed, praying for our loved ones or when we are on the gurney ourselves. And when we stand over a casket, we never dreamed we’d stand over. He stands beside us. And yet again, the night our spouse leaves us never to return. Jesus is there when we feel him.

And when we don’t, I have goosebumps right now. Like I need a coat and it’s 90 degrees in remission, but now I just, I read that and I think. He’s always there ever present. And, and one of the things that you said that was so striking to me in one of your interviews was Lord. I know you. But I can’t find you.

And this is, I think everything that you’ve been talking about to us here, which is we’ve got to know who God is and we have to show up. We can’t say we’re too busy. We’re too busy. We’re too busy. God meets helpless people everyday who have no time to spare. He’s not going to. We’ve got to be the ones to prioritize and to say, I can’t do it by myself.

Cause man, when I do look at the mess I’ve made behind me, look at the choices I’ve made, look where I’ve ended up. We finally have to get it and say, I can’t do it on my own. Maybe there’s something to this.

Michele: You know what one last thing is that all of that is so true. You know, I’m I started in the ministry when I was 19.

I was singing on the Maranatha praise albums. Before you were even thinking about being born. It was in the early Jesus movement days when contemporary Christian music was just an embryo. So I was 19 I’m 65 and. I wish I could grab everyone, you know, in their twenties, in their thirties and even in their forties and, and just wrap my arms around them because, um, you know, you say it makes you who you are today.

That’s a real popular saying, and it does, but boy, I wasted so much time and I lost so much. And the thing is. You know, I always tell people don’t do what I did use me as a poster child of what not to do because, um, you don’t get that time back and you don’t always get a second chance other God can recreate and move you forward without doubt.

But I think it’s so sad that I kept having to lose so much in order to really come to God and say, okay, God, I’ll do it your way. I, it always took a loss in my life for me to, to become. Intimate with God and obedient with God because he is good. It took me so much loss. Think somebody who I think I knew better.

And I also think every time I made some of those crazy decisions, Beth, it was because I forgotten that God is good. Just for a minute. I thought he was cheating me out of something. Yeah, just for a minute. I thought he doesn’t have my best in mind. And so I would make a decision really based on that. And I’m ashamed to say that really, but it’s true because if I really believe he was good, I wouldn’t have made those decisions.

So that’d be way I hope that makes sense. If you’re young and God will pick you up every single time you fall down. But man time is precious and you’re young and beautiful. Don’t waste. By doing your own by doing your own thing. Yeah.

Beth: And on that note, I don’t know that we could actually end on anything better.

Thank you for being here and Untangled. You guys is out there. I’m ordering it. Literally. The second that I hang up with Michele here, I’m going to read this book start to finish, and I know on your website as well that you have some sample chapters. You have videos, you have your Dr. Phil interview, you have this amazing, your journey is out there.

So I encourage everybody to go out and just keep these words of advice of wisdom, because a life well lived throughout all of the bumps ends up, like you said, right, where it’s supposed to be, because that picks you up. So, Michele, thank you so much for being here. It’s been a pleasure. Okay guys. Thank you so much as always for joining me.

Wasn’t Michele. Amazing. Right? How transparent, how she shared her story of trauma, of pain of coming through it, scripture, getting to know God, his story. I mean, just everything about what she said. It’s a story. I think we each have. I think we each have so much that we come through and when we get to the other side, if we don’t give up and we say, thank you, Jesus, thanks for getting us through this.

Thanks for turning us into a little closer to the people that we have always been meant to be, and to become thank you for growth and change and transformation. Thank you for never giving up on it. Thank you for loving us. Thank you for chasing us relentlessly in pursuit of the relationship that you have with each of us.

And, and also Lord, thank you for bringing people into our lives like Michele, who is just an incredible force, incredible story, and incredible woman who has this gifting, right? This beautiful voice that God gave her. She uses that she uses her gifts of ministry. Of lifting and empowering other women best get her book Untangled.

The truth will set you free. Thank you as always for being here. I love sharing this time with you. Go to my website, Beth fisher.com. If you would like to be on the show, if you know anybody, that would be a good fit for the show. I’m always open to that. People love meeting new people. Uh, if I can help you in any way with regard to coaching, I do personal and professional development coaching.

I have a certified holistic coaching certification. Um, I have I’m on my way to get an internet. Certified Federation, right? International coaching Federation. So I coach people because I like helping people get through life, knowing who they are showing up on their stories authentically each and every time each and every day.

So I can help in any way that fisher.com is where I am. And you guys reminder to be remorseless on .

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